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eryxias-第3章

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compel to admit that riches are bad for some men。  But surely; if they were

a good; they could not appear bad for any one?



Here I interposed and said to them:  If you two were having an argument

about equitation and what was the best way of riding; supposing that I knew

the art myself; I should try to bring you to an agreement。  For I should be

ashamed if I were present and did not do what I could to prevent your

difference。  And I should do the same if you were quarrelling about any

other art and were likely; unless you agreed on the point in dispute; to

part as enemies instead of as friends。  But now; when we are contending

about a thing of which the usefulness continues during the whole of life;

and it makes an enormous difference whether we are to regard it as

beneficial or not;a thing; too; which is esteemed of the highest

importance by the Hellenes:(for parents; as soon as their children are;

as they think; come to years of discretion; urge them to consider how

wealth may be acquired; since by riches the value of a man is judged):

When; I say; we are thus in earnest; and you; who agree in other respects;

fall to disputing about a matter of such moment; that is; about wealth; and

not merely whether it is black or white; light or heavy; but whether it is

a good or an evil; whereby; although you are now the dearest of friends and

kinsmen; the most bitter hatred may arise betwixt you; I must hinder your

dissension to the best of my power。  If I could; I would tell you the

truth; and so put an end to the dispute; but as I cannot do this; and each

of you supposes that you can bring the other to an agreement; I am

prepared; as far as my capacity admits; to help you in solving the

question。  Please; therefore; Critias; try to make us accept the doctrines

which you yourself entertain。



CRITIAS:  I should like to follow up the argument; and will ask Eryxias

whether he thinks that there are just and unjust men?



ERYXIAS:  Most decidedly。



CRITIAS:  And does injustice seem to you an evil or a good?



ERYXIAS:  An evil。



CRITIAS:  Do you consider that he who bribes his neighbour's wife and

commits adultery with her; acts justly or unjustly; and this although both

the state and the laws forbid?



ERYXIAS:  Unjustly。



CRITIAS:  And if the wicked man has wealth and is willing to spend it; he

will carry out his evil purposes? whereas he who is short of means cannot

do what he fain would; and therefore does not sin?  In such a case; surely;

it is better that a person should not be wealthy; if his poverty prevents

the accomplishment of his desires; and his desires are evil?  Or; again;

should you call sickness a good or an evil?



ERYXIAS:  An evil。



CRITIAS:  Well; and do you think that some men are intemperate?



ERYXIAS:  Yes。



CRITIAS:  Then; if it is better for his health that the intemperate man

should refrain from meat and drink and other pleasant things; but he cannot

owing to his intemperance; will it not also be better that he should be too

poor to gratify his lust rather than that he should have a superabundance

of means?  For thus he will not be able to sin; although he desire never so

much。



Critias appeared to be arguing so admirably that Eryxias; if he had not

been ashamed of the bystanders; would probably have got up and struck him。 

For he thought that he had been robbed of a great possession when it became

obvious to him that he had been wrong in his former opinion about wealth。 

I observed his vexation; and feared that they would proceed to abuse and

quarrelling:  so I said;I heard that very argument used in the Lyceum

yesterday by a wise man; Prodicus of Ceos; but the audience thought that he

was talking mere nonsense; and no one could be persuaded that he was

speaking the truth。  And when at last a certain talkative young gentleman

came in; and; taking his seat; began to laugh and jeer at Prodicus;

tormenting him and demanding an explanation of his argument; he gained the

ear of the audience far more than Prodicus。



Can you repeat the discourse to us?  Said Erasistratus。



SOCRATES:  If I can only remember it; I will。  The youth began by asking

Prodicus; In what way did he think that riches were a good and in what an

evil?  Prodicus answered; as you did just now; that they were a good to

good men and to those who knew in what way they should be employed; while

to the bad and the ignorant they were an evil。  The same is true; he went

on to say; of all other things; men make them to be what they are

themselves。  The saying of Archilochus is true:



'Men's thoughts correspond to the things which they meet with。'



Well; then; replied the youth; if any one makes me wise in that wisdom

whereby good men become wise; he must also make everything else good to me。

Not that he concerns himself at all with these other things; but he has

converted my ignorance into wisdom。  If; for example; a person teach me

grammar or music; he will at the same time teach me all that relates to

grammar or music; and so when he makes me good; he makes things good to me。



Prodicus did not altogether agree:  still he consented to what was said。



And do you think; said the youth; that doing good things is like building a

house;the work of human agency; or do things remain what they were at

first; good or bad; for all time?



Prodicus began to suspect; I fancy; the direction which the argument was

likely to take; and did not wish to be put down by a mere stripling before

all those present:(if they two had been alone; he would not have

minded):so he answered; cleverly enough:  I think that doing good things

is a work of human agency。



And is virtue in your opinion; Prodicus; innate or acquired by instruction?



The latter; said Prodicus。



Then you would consider him a simpleton who supposed that he could obtain

by praying to the Gods the knowledge of grammar or music or any other art;

which he must either learn from another or find out for himself?



Prodicus agreed to this also。



And when you pray to the Gods that you may do well and receive good; you

mean by your prayer nothing else than that you desire to become good and

wise:if; at least; things are good to the good and wise and evil to the

evil。  But in that case; if virtue is acquired by instruction; it would

appear that you only pray to be taught what you do not know。



Hereupon I said to Prodicus that it was no misfortune to him if he had been

proved to be in error in supposing that the Gods immediately granted to us

whatever we asked:if; I added; whenever you go up to the Acropolis you

earnestly entreat the Gods to grant you good things; although you know not

whether they can yield your request; it is as though you went to the doors

of the grammarian and begged him; although you had never made a study of

the art; to give you a knowledge of grammar which would enable you

forthwith to do the business of a grammarian。



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